You know how people say that God knit us together and took great care to make us who we are? But then when a baby is born with defects or whatnot, people say “God knew this was going to happen and He is going to bring beauty out of it.”
Why is it when things turn out the way we want, we give God the glory for His hand being in every detail. But when they go off course we just talk about it like He was watching on the sidelines waiting to fix things, but was uninvolved from the start.
What gives?
doule.com 
I think that it is His will when a baby is born with or without problems. if we agree God is all knowing and all powerful then to say HE is arware of the problem and not directly involved is a bit inconsistant. He can fix the problem, but does not choose to so that is Him willing this into that childs life. that is what i think> Donna
but if we believe God knits us together, then aren’t we saying that He doesn’t just allow these things, but actually creates them?
I never think as deep or out there like you do. My thought is a bit more simplistic. I am a sinner, I am born a sinner I will die a sinner….so if sin is in my DNA, then my unformed body or that of a child I bear can and will have “defects”. Are the defects major and deemed medical or is it the ever present defect of my sin? God “allowed” Adam and Eve to sin, so the sin that we know is in our hearts is also in our bodies since the fall of man. This is how I understand that God “allows” the bad stuff in our lives. I dont know if this makes sense, but that is how my brain works!
I think what you’re talking about here is a classic example of Christian cognitive dissonance. It’s also a favored excuse for atheists and agnostics. Can we really look at the world around us and say that God is both all-powerful and loving? Not logically, we can’t. When we look at all the bad stuff that goes down in the world–and I’m talking here about the stuff people have no control of, like birth defects…or, say, natural disasters–our brains tell us that God either doesn’t love us enough to prevent such things or that God isn’t powerful enough to stop it.
Which is when faith comes in. All of that, “God has a plan,” stuff. So, while I certainly encourage your tendency to think critically about your faith, you have to concede that there’s a point where logic just ain’t gonna cut it. No matter what Timothy Keller says, belief in God can’t be attained through reason alone.
So, to answer your question, there’s a difference in the way people talk about God’s love and power when good things happen versus when bad things happen because they can’t really rap their heads around the image of God in which they believe.
i agree. i love the quote i stole from Matt’s facebook page (posted “gracias Mateo”
Knowing God defies logic at times. I guess in the end, there is a considerable gap in what we define as “good” and “loving” and how God would define them. often the things we see as bad really are even worse that we know. But that doesn’t mean that God isn’t redeeming them. This doesn’t answer the original question. I guess that’s why,a s shawn said, we have to KNOW God and KNOW that He is good when things look otherwise.
Good is knowing Him. Outside of that lens, it’s all perspective.
On a side note, being an atheist requires a pretty hefty distance from logic as well…im just sayin’.
I totally predicted that you would throw out the ‘ol “atheism requires faith too” line. Indeed. It’s why atheism is still classified as a religious identity. I’ve never claimed otherwise. In fact, it’s why I adhere to the intellectual cop-out that is agnosticism. Which is also a religious identity, but one that doesn’t obligate me to tell anyone else what to think.
Also, I think I did answer your original question. Cognitive Dissonance. It’s all cognitive dissonance. You may disagree with my answer, but I still answered your question.
And if we’re going to get into a semantic discussion about knowing versus believing, then I’m going to keep arguing that you don’t know anything, you only believe that you know. Which is just gonna get exhausting. Which is why we should get together for coffee soon and resume the conversation with the aid of legal stimulants.
my bad. i was saying that i wasn’t answering my original question. the difference in believing and knowing is like be saying papa robbie grew up in charleston, went to usc, Go Cocks, and he has a bald head. These things i believe because i’ve observed and they are facts. but KNOWING him is way more. it’s interacting with him. Anyone can believe anything about God that they want, whether it is true or not. But KNOWING Him is a whole different level. its enjoying and fighting and loving and screaming just like with any other relationship, only more intense because I CAN’T sit across the table from Him and drink and overpriced coffee. (i mean, it that were possible, He would totally pick up the tab…) So getting to know Him demands the engagement of my spirit and soul. speaking of coffee…
i am ALL about the coffee date!
I love the way you said that cheryl. by the way , who are we to say what is ultimately “good” or “bad”. our perspective is way too narrow compared to God’s. Who are we to look at him and say ” wow where were you on that one?” that is what he basically said to Job when he asked God what was up.
Ok it is good to ask god honest questions, but his response to job was basically, you can’t see past your nose, you don’t have persprective, trust me. i think that is a beter way to express what i meant, i think…. it is 0637. 🙂 so i can’t always be sure if i am making any sence :0